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zeropoint
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 335
Location: Altered State of Druggachusettes
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:51 am Post subject:
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| boardadmin wrote: | | Then why not say, "I love you dearly" and leave it at that? As you well know, Frank never said anything without extra meanings behind them. I think this was his way of telling us that Jessica was her daughter, but she wasn't officially allowed to reveal that information ...due to the secrecy of the BG breeding program and Jessica's importance within it. |
Yep! You is right, son.
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niko15
Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 15
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject:
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How do you explain that he wrote about her mother later and that she was Tanidia Nerus? Does it mean that Helena was Tanidia long time ago. I could imagine that they could change names during their career path.
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Allizkaerf
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:22 pm Post subject:
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It doesn't matter what she changed her name to, the Atreides have Other Memory and would know.
Here's a better question, at the end of Dune when the Baron and RM Mohiam are both in the room talking to Alia, why does Alia address the Baron as Grandfather but not address Mohiam as Grandmother?
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zeropoint
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 335
Location: Altered State of Druggachusettes
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:06 am Post subject:
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| niko15 wrote: | | How do you explain that he wrote about her mother later and that she was Tanidia Nerus? Does it mean that Helena was Tanidia long time ago. I could imagine that they could change names during their career path. |
No. They are two different people.
Giving the benefit of doubt, Frank doesn't name Jessica's mother until Children of Dune, but there is enough evidence in DUNE that RM GHM is NOT her mother. Allizkaerf's observation (above) is a very good example.
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arnoldo
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 1905
Location: Aztlan
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:52 am Post subject:
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| zeropoint wrote: | | niko15 wrote: | | How do you explain that he wrote about her mother later and that she was Tanidia Nerus? Does it mean that Helena was Tanidia long time ago. I could imagine that they could change names during their career path. |
No. They are two different people.
Giving the benefit of doubt, Frank doesn't name Jessica's mother until Children of Dune, but there is enough evidence in DUNE that RM GHM is NOT her mother. Allizkaerf's observation (above) is a very good example. |
Alia calls the Baron grandfather once all hell broke loose and everyone was fleeing the place. Previously Alia did address RM GHM and told her,
"A cosmic accident. . . and you played your part in it."
_________________
It is forbidden to unleash an artificial consciousness on the universe.
~The Ascenscion Factor.
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Allizkaerf
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:24 am Post subject:
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| arnoldo wrote: | Alia calls the Baron grandfather once all hell broke loose and everyone was fleeing the place. Previously Alia did address RM GHM and told her,
"A cosmic accident. . . and you played your part in it."
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The Baron and Mohiam were both in the room the whole time.
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baureihe41
Joined: 30 Oct 2009
Posts: 2
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:15 am Post subject:
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| arnoldo wrote: | | zeropoint wrote: | | niko15 wrote: | | How do you explain that he wrote about her mother later and that she was Tanidia Nerus? Does it mean that Helena was Tanidia long time ago. I could imagine that they could change names during their career path. |
No. They are two different people.
Giving the benefit of doubt, Frank doesn't name Jessica's mother until Children of Dune, but there is enough evidence in DUNE that RM GHM is NOT her mother. Allizkaerf's observation (above) is a very good example. |
Alia calls the Baron grandfather once all hell broke loose and everyone was fleeing the place. Previously Alia did address RM GHM and told her,
"A cosmic accident. . . and you played your part in it."
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So? Does that mean she has to be Jessica's mother? That is nonsense.
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Israfil
Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 377
Location: No Boundary Proposal
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject:
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| baureihe41 wrote: | | arnoldo wrote: | | zeropoint wrote: | | niko15 wrote: | | How do you explain that he wrote about her mother later and that she was Tanidia Nerus? Does it mean that Helena was Tanidia long time ago. I could imagine that they could change names during their career path. |
No. They are two different people.
Giving the benefit of doubt, Frank doesn't name Jessica's mother until Children of Dune, but there is enough evidence in DUNE that RM GHM is NOT her mother. Allizkaerf's observation (above) is a very good example. |
Alia calls the Baron grandfather once all hell broke loose and everyone was fleeing the place. Previously Alia did address RM GHM and told her,
"A cosmic accident. . . and you played your part in it."
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So? Does that mean she has to be Jessica's mother? That is nonsense. |
I agree. For all we know, Mohiam could have been only manipulating people and events, a la BG, for their breeding program...
If FH's writing style of Dune was so vague and open to interpretation, can we do the same with the new authors and say that everything they wrote could be rewritten later and go back to some their statements as well? Like Mohiam being J's mother?
_________________
There's another kind of time, imaginary time, in which the universe has no beginning or end. It would be completely self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE.
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arnoldo
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 1905
Location: Aztlan
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:18 pm Post subject:
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| Israfil wrote: | | baureihe41 wrote: | | arnoldo wrote: | | zeropoint wrote: | | niko15 wrote: | | How do you explain that he wrote about her mother later and that she was Tanidia Nerus? Does it mean that Helena was Tanidia long time ago. I could imagine that they could change names during their career path. |
No. They are two different people.
Giving the benefit of doubt, Frank doesn't name Jessica's mother until Children of Dune, but there is enough evidence in DUNE that RM GHM is NOT her mother. Allizkaerf's observation (above) is a very good example. |
Alia calls the Baron grandfather once all hell broke loose and everyone was fleeing the place. Previously Alia did address RM GHM and told her,
"A cosmic accident. . . and you played your part in it."
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So? Does that mean she has to be Jessica's mother? That is nonsense. |
I agree. For all we know, Mohiam could have been only manipulating people and events, a la BG, for their breeding program... |
You could very well be right since it is unclear in any passages in Dune who Jessica's mother is. However, we do know there is some kind of bond between Alia and Mohiam from the following passage;
| Quote: | . . . The old woman pointed a finger at Alia. "Get out of my mind!"
"T-P?" the Emperor whispered. He snapped his attention backto Alia. "By the Great Mother!"
"You don't understand, Majesty," the old woman said. "Not telepathy. She's in my mind. She's like the ones before me, the ones who gave me their memories. She stands in my mind! She cannot be there, but she is!" |
_________________
It is forbidden to unleash an artificial consciousness on the universe.
~The Ascenscion Factor.
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Israfil
Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 377
Location: No Boundary Proposal
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject:
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| arnoldo wrote: | | Israfil wrote: | | baureihe41 wrote: | | arnoldo wrote: | | zeropoint wrote: | | niko15 wrote: | | How do you explain that he wrote about her mother later and that she was Tanidia Nerus? Does it mean that Helena was Tanidia long time ago. I could imagine that they could change names during their career path. |
No. They are two different people.
Giving the benefit of doubt, Frank doesn't name Jessica's mother until Children of Dune, but there is enough evidence in DUNE that RM GHM is NOT her mother. Allizkaerf's observation (above) is a very good example. |
Alia calls the Baron grandfather once all hell broke loose and everyone was fleeing the place. Previously Alia did address RM GHM and told her,
"A cosmic accident. . . and you played your part in it."
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So? Does that mean she has to be Jessica's mother? That is nonsense. |
I agree. For all we know, Mohiam could have been only manipulating people and events, a la BG, for their breeding program... |
You could very well be right since it is unclear in any passages in Dune who Jessica's mother is. However, we do know there is some kind of bond between Alia and Mohiam from the following passage;
| Quote: | . . . The old woman pointed a finger at Alia. "Get out of my mind!"
"T-P?" the Emperor whispered. He snapped his attention backto Alia. "By the Great Mother!"
"You don't understand, Majesty," the old woman said. "Not telepathy. She's in my mind. She's like the ones before me, the ones who gave me their memories. She stands in my mind! She cannot be there, but she is!" |
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I always thought this was an example of Sharing from Alia that she got from being an Abomination? (All the memories from Jessica, Ramallo, and so on...)
_________________
There's another kind of time, imaginary time, in which the universe has no beginning or end. It would be completely self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE.
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Allizkaerf
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:04 pm Post subject:
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Mohiam wouldn't be in RM Ramallo's Sharred Memory unless she had recently Shared (before Sharing with Jessica) with a proper RM who had Shared with RM Mohiam.
I think FH originally planned to give the KH and descendants TP but changed his mind later. Or maybe he planned on giving Alia the ability to project her own persona backwards into OM and later abandoned it. Mohiam was likely to be in there somewhere.
That could explain the new authors having Alia torment the ghola Baron... somewhat.
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Israfil
Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 377
Location: No Boundary Proposal
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject:
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| Allizkaerf wrote: | | Mohiam wouldn't be in RM Ramallo's Sharred Memory unless she had recently Shared (before Sharing with Jessica) with a proper RM who had Shared with RM Mohiam. |
I'm assuming this, but have no quote to prove it...but it makes sense that Ramallo could have Shared at some point with someone who Shared with Mohiam...although i like your idea that FH just dropped the TP thingy and this was just what Alia did...i thought it was some kind of ability that only Abominations could do...
_________________
There's another kind of time, imaginary time, in which the universe has no beginning or end. It would be completely self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE.
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Allizkaerf
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject:
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| Israfil wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | | Mohiam wouldn't be in RM Ramallo's Sharred Memory unless she had recently Shared (before Sharing with Jessica) with a proper RM who had Shared with RM Mohiam. |
I'm assuming this, but have no quote to prove it...but it makes sense that Ramallo could have Shared at some point with someone who Shared with Mohiam...although i like your idea that FH just dropped the TP thingy and this was just what Alia did...i thought it was some kind of ability that only Abominations could do... |
It's implied that Alia can communicate via TP with Paul, also:
"Kill her," the old woman muttered, and clutched the back of the throne for
support. "Kill her!" The sunken old eyes glared at Alia.
"Silence," the Emperor said, and he studied Alia. "Child, can you
communicate with your brother?"
"My brother knows I'm here," Alia said.
"Can you tell him to surrender as the price of your life?"
Alia smiled up at him with clear innocence. "I shall not do that," she said.
This may be a prescient trick though.
There's also Leto II lending Paul the use of his eyes at the end of DM.
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Israfil
Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 377
Location: No Boundary Proposal
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject:
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| Allizkaerf wrote: | | Israfil wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | | Mohiam wouldn't be in RM Ramallo's Sharred Memory unless she had recently Shared (before Sharing with Jessica) with a proper RM who had Shared with RM Mohiam. |
I'm assuming this, but have no quote to prove it...but it makes sense that Ramallo could have Shared at some point with someone who Shared with Mohiam...although i like your idea that FH just dropped the TP thingy and this was just what Alia did...i thought it was some kind of ability that only Abominations could do... |
It's implied that Alia can communicate via TP with Paul, also:
"Kill her," the old woman muttered, and clutched the back of the throne for
support. "Kill her!" The sunken old eyes glared at Alia.
"Silence," the Emperor said, and he studied Alia. "Child, can you
communicate with your brother?"
"My brother knows I'm here," Alia said.
"Can you tell him to surrender as the price of your life?"
Alia smiled up at him with clear innocence. "I shall not do that," she said.
This may be a prescient trick though.
There's also Leto II lending Paul the use of his eyes at the end of DM. |
Yeah, i agree with the prescient trick...although it could be the circumstances of the attack that implies that Paul knows of Alia...maybe...
_________________
There's another kind of time, imaginary time, in which the universe has no beginning or end. It would be completely self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE.
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arnoldo
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 1905
Location: Aztlan
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:15 pm Post subject:
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| Allizkaerf wrote: | | Israfil wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | | Mohiam wouldn't be in RM Ramallo's Sharred Memory unless she had recently Shared (before Sharing with Jessica) with a proper RM who had Shared with RM Mohiam. |
I'm assuming this, but have no quote to prove it...but it makes sense that Ramallo could have Shared at some point with someone who Shared with Mohiam...although i like your idea that FH just dropped the TP thingy and this was just what Alia did...i thought it was some kind of ability that only Abominations could do... |
It's implied that Alia can communicate via TP with Paul, also:
"Kill her," the old woman muttered, and clutched the back of the throne for
support. "Kill her!" The sunken old eyes glared at Alia.
"Silence," the Emperor said, and he studied Alia. "Child, can you
communicate with your brother?"
"My brother knows I'm here," Alia said.
"Can you tell him to surrender as the price of your life?"
Alia smiled up at him with clear innocence. "I shall not do that," she said. . . . |
Interesting, perhaps this ability that Alia had was soley limited to people she was directly related to such as RM Mohiam and Paul?
_________________
It is forbidden to unleash an artificial consciousness on the universe.
~The Ascenscion Factor.
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arnoldo
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 1905
Location: Aztlan
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:20 pm Post subject:
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| Israfil wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | | Israfil wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | | Mohiam wouldn't be in RM Ramallo's Sharred Memory unless she had recently Shared (before Sharing with Jessica) with a proper RM who had Shared with RM Mohiam. |
I'm assuming this, but have no quote to prove it...but it makes sense that Ramallo could have Shared at some point with someone who Shared with Mohiam...although i like your idea that FH just dropped the TP thingy and this was just what Alia did...i thought it was some kind of ability that only Abominations could do... |
It's implied that Alia can communicate via TP with Paul, also:
"Kill her," the old woman muttered, and clutched the back of the throne for
support. "Kill her!" The sunken old eyes glared at Alia.
"Silence," the Emperor said, and he studied Alia. "Child, can you
communicate with your brother?"
"My brother knows I'm here," Alia said.
"Can you tell him to surrender as the price of your life?"
Alia smiled up at him with clear innocence. "I shall not do that," she said.
This may be a prescient trick though.
There's also Leto II lending Paul the use of his eyes at the end of DM. |
Yeah, i agree with the prescient trick...although it could be the circumstances of the attack that implies that Paul knows of Alia...maybe... |
The following quote seems to indicated it was no trick.
Paul closed his eyes, forcing grief out of his mind, letting it wait as he had once waited to mourn his father. Now, he gave his thoughts over to this day's accumulated discoveries -- the mixed futures and the hidden presence of Alia within his awareness.
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Allizkaerf
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:38 am Post subject:
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| arnoldo wrote: | | Israfil wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | | Israfil wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | | Mohiam wouldn't be in RM Ramallo's Sharred Memory unless she had recently Shared (before Sharing with Jessica) with a proper RM who had Shared with RM Mohiam. |
I'm assuming this, but have no quote to prove it...but it makes sense that Ramallo could have Shared at some point with someone who Shared with Mohiam...although i like your idea that FH just dropped the TP thingy and this was just what Alia did...i thought it was some kind of ability that only Abominations could do... |
It's implied that Alia can communicate via TP with Paul, also:
"Kill her," the old woman muttered, and clutched the back of the throne for
support. "Kill her!" The sunken old eyes glared at Alia.
"Silence," the Emperor said, and he studied Alia. "Child, can you
communicate with your brother?"
"My brother knows I'm here," Alia said.
"Can you tell him to surrender as the price of your life?"
Alia smiled up at him with clear innocence. "I shall not do that," she said.
This may be a prescient trick though.
There's also Leto II lending Paul the use of his eyes at the end of DM. |
Yeah, i agree with the prescient trick...although it could be the circumstances of the attack that implies that Paul knows of Alia...maybe... |
The following quote seems to indicated it was no trick.
Paul closed his eyes, forcing grief out of his mind, letting it wait as he had once waited to mourn his father. Now, he gave his thoughts over to this day's accumulated discoveries -- the mixed futures and the hidden presence of Alia within his awareness. |
Did you not read the paragraph that comes after that?
Of all the uses of time-vision, this was the strangest. "I have breasted the
future to place my words where only you can hear them," Alia had said. "Even you
cannot do that, my brother. I find it an interesting play. And . . . oh, yes --
I've killed our grandfather, the demented old Baron. He had very little pain."
Silence. His time sense had seen her withdrawal.
Even Alia calls it "play". It is a prescient trick. 
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arnoldo
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 1905
Location: Aztlan
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:39 am Post subject:
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| Allizkaerf wrote: | | arnoldo wrote: | | Israfil wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | | Israfil wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | | Mohiam wouldn't be in RM Ramallo's Sharred Memory unless she had recently Shared (before Sharing with Jessica) with a proper RM who had Shared with RM Mohiam. |
I'm assuming this, but have no quote to prove it...but it makes sense that Ramallo could have Shared at some point with someone who Shared with Mohiam...although i like your idea that FH just dropped the TP thingy and this was just what Alia did...i thought it was some kind of ability that only Abominations could do... |
It's implied that Alia can communicate via TP with Paul, also:
"Kill her," the old woman muttered, and clutched the back of the throne for
support. "Kill her!" The sunken old eyes glared at Alia.
"Silence," the Emperor said, and he studied Alia. "Child, can you
communicate with your brother?"
"My brother knows I'm here," Alia said.
"Can you tell him to surrender as the price of your life?"
Alia smiled up at him with clear innocence. "I shall not do that," she said.
This may be a prescient trick though.
There's also Leto II lending Paul the use of his eyes at the end of DM. |
Yeah, i agree with the prescient trick...although it could be the circumstances of the attack that implies that Paul knows of Alia...maybe... |
The following quote seems to indicated it was no trick.
Paul closed his eyes, forcing grief out of his mind, letting it wait as he had once waited to mourn his father. Now, he gave his thoughts over to this day's accumulated discoveries -- the mixed futures and the hidden presence of Alia within his awareness. |
Did you not read the paragraph that comes after that?
Of all the uses of time-vision, this was the strangest. "I have breasted the
future to place my words where only you can hear them," Alia had said. "Even you
cannot do that, my brother. I find it an interesting play. And . . . oh, yes --
I've killed our grandfather, the demented old Baron. He had very little pain."
Silence. His time sense had seen her withdrawal.
Even Alia calls it "play". It is a prescient trick. |
Is it a prescient trick that only prescients can play with other prescients? And if so, was RM Mohiam prescient?
_________________
It is forbidden to unleash an artificial consciousness on the universe.
~The Ascenscion Factor.
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Allizkaerf
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:23 am Post subject:
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| arnoldo wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | | arnoldo wrote: | | Israfil wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | | Israfil wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | | Mohiam wouldn't be in RM Ramallo's Sharred Memory unless she had recently Shared (before Sharing with Jessica) with a proper RM who had Shared with RM Mohiam. |
I'm assuming this, but have no quote to prove it...but it makes sense that Ramallo could have Shared at some point with someone who Shared with Mohiam...although i like your idea that FH just dropped the TP thingy and this was just what Alia did...i thought it was some kind of ability that only Abominations could do... |
It's implied that Alia can communicate via TP with Paul, also:
"Kill her," the old woman muttered, and clutched the back of the throne for
support. "Kill her!" The sunken old eyes glared at Alia.
"Silence," the Emperor said, and he studied Alia. "Child, can you
communicate with your brother?"
"My brother knows I'm here," Alia said.
"Can you tell him to surrender as the price of your life?"
Alia smiled up at him with clear innocence. "I shall not do that," she said.
This may be a prescient trick though.
There's also Leto II lending Paul the use of his eyes at the end of DM. |
Yeah, i agree with the prescient trick...although it could be the circumstances of the attack that implies that Paul knows of Alia...maybe... |
The following quote seems to indicated it was no trick.
Paul closed his eyes, forcing grief out of his mind, letting it wait as he had once waited to mourn his father. Now, he gave his thoughts over to this day's accumulated discoveries -- the mixed futures and the hidden presence of Alia within his awareness. |
Did you not read the paragraph that comes after that?
Of all the uses of time-vision, this was the strangest. "I have breasted the
future to place my words where only you can hear them," Alia had said. "Even you
cannot do that, my brother. I find it an interesting play. And . . . oh, yes --
I've killed our grandfather, the demented old Baron. He had very little pain."
Silence. His time sense had seen her withdrawal.
Even Alia calls it "play". It is a prescient trick. |
Is it a prescient trick that only prescients can play with other prescients? And if so, was RM Mohiam prescient? |
Maybe...
"I ask only what you see in the future with your superior abilities."
"I see in the future what I've seen in the past. You well know the pattern
of our affairs, Jessica. The race knows its own mortality and fears stagnation
of its heredity. It's in the bloodstream -- the urge to mingle genetic strains
without plan. The Imperium, the CHOAM Company, all the Great Houses, they are
but bits of flotsam in the path of the flood."
Regardless, I was refering to Alia and Paul communicating mentally.
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niko15
Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 15
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:00 am Post subject:
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There is one moment in the book which made me believe that Paul considered his grand mother somebody else but not Mohiam:
"Listen to me," he said. "You wanted the Reverend Mother to hear about my dreams: You listen in her place now. I've just had a waking dream. Do you know why?"... and couple sentences later:
"You're the Baron's own daughter," he said, and watched the way she pressed her hands to her mouth. "The Baron sampled many pleasures in his youth, and once permitted himself to be seduced. But it was for the genetic purposes of the Bene Gesserit, by one of you."
Suddenly Paul just knows who was his grandfather. No doubt that he could see who was his grandmother at the same instant. But still he calls her "Reverend Mother". I would be pretty angry to understand that I am grandson of mine worse enemy. But at the same time i would be angry enough to realize that I was tested by my own grandmother and SHE would kill me in case I failed her test. If I am going to tell my mother who was her father I would tell her the true about her mother too. But.. this is how i would behave...
"by one of you" he said.
"by your own mother" I would say
Last edited by niko15 on Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Allizkaerf
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:04 am Post subject:
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| niko15 wrote: | There is one moment in the book which made me believe that Paul considered his grand mother somebody else but not Mohiam:
"Listen to me," he said. "You wanted the Reverend Mother to hear about my dreams: You listen in her place now. I've just had a waking dream. Do you know why?"... and couple sentences later:
"You're the Baron's own daughter," he said, and watched the way she pressed her hands to her mouth. "The Baron sampled many pleasures in his youth, and once permitted himself to be seduced. But it was for the genetic purposes of the Bene Gesserit, by one of you."
Suddenly Paul just knows who was his grandfather. No doubt that he could see who was his grandmother at the same instant. But still he calls her "Reverend Mother". I would be pretty angry to understand that I am grandson of mine worse enemy. But at the same time i would be angry enough to realize that I was tested by my own grandmother and SHE would kill me in case I failed her test. If I am going to tell my mother who was her father I would tell her the true about her mother too. But.. this is how i would behave... |
According to KJA, Dune is an in-universe document written by Irulan and FH's narrative means nothing.
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niko15
Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 15
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:28 am Post subject:
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This chapter is
"FOR LOVERS OF CLASSIC DUNE ONLY"
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Allizkaerf
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:33 am Post subject:
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| niko15 wrote: | This chapter is
"FOR LOVERS OF CLASSIC DUNE ONLY"
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My bad...
Back to FH...
Paul has Stilgar kill Mohiam in DM. In keeping with family tradition (Alia killing the Baron) Paul would have done the dirty deed himself.
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boardadmin
Site Admin
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 4681
Location: Monterey, California
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:19 pm Post subject:
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| Allizkaerf wrote: | | niko15 wrote: | This chapter is
"FOR LOVERS OF CLASSIC DUNE ONLY"
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My bad...
Back to FH...
Paul has Stilgar kill Mohiam in DM. In keeping with family tradition (Alia killing the Baron) Paul would have done the dirty deed himself. |
Alia was an abomination. Paul was not. Alia wouldn't have had a problem killing ....just about anyone, I think; even at that early age. Paul, though, I don't think would be willing to kill any family member due to his title (Emperor).
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arnoldo
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 1905
Location: Aztlan
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:47 am Post subject:
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| Allizkaerf wrote: | . .
Paul has Stilgar kill Mohiam in DM. In keeping with family tradition (Alia killing the Baron) Paul would have done the dirty deed himself. |
Paul commanded that Mohiam not be executed. This was in keeping with family tradition of Leto not having Helena executed for involvement in the death of his father, Duke Paulus Atreides.
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Allizkaerf
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:46 am Post subject:
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| boardadmin wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | | niko15 wrote: | This chapter is
"FOR LOVERS OF CLASSIC DUNE ONLY"
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My bad...
Back to FH...
Paul has Stilgar kill Mohiam in DM. In keeping with family tradition (Alia killing the Baron) Paul would have done the dirty deed himself. |
Alia was an abomination. Paul was not. Alia wouldn't have had a problem killing ....just about anyone, I think; even at that early age. Paul, though, I don't think would be willing to kill any family member due to his title (Emperor). |
Paul had drums made of Sardaukar skin. Not exactly a morally stable guy.
Last edited by Allizkaerf on Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Allizkaerf
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:47 am Post subject:
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| arnoldo wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | . .
Paul has Stilgar kill Mohiam in DM. In keeping with family tradition (Alia killing the Baron) Paul would have done the dirty deed himself. |
Paul commanded that Mohiam not be executed. |
You're right, my bad. That was Stilgar's disobedience.
| Quote: | | This was in keeping with family tradition of Leto not having Helena executed for involvement in the death of his father, Duke Paulus Atreides. |
This is a classic dune only forum.
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Allizkaerf
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:50 am Post subject:
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Regardless, nothing FH wrote suggest Mohiam is Paul's grandmother.
To the contrary, he names her as someone else.
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arnoldo
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 1905
Location: Aztlan
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject:
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| Allizkaerf wrote: | | Regardless, nothing FH wrote suggest Mohiam is Paul's grandmother. . . |
Have you read FH's notes?
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arnoldo
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 1905
Location: Aztlan
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:58 pm Post subject:
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| Allizkaerf wrote: | | arnoldo wrote: | | Allizkaerf wrote: | . .
Paul has Stilgar kill Mohiam in DM. In keeping with family tradition (Alia killing the Baron) Paul would have done the dirty deed himself. |
Paul commanded that Mohiam not be executed. |
You're right, my bad. That was Stilgar's disobedience. |
ok
| arnoldo wrote: | | This was in keeping with family tradition of Leto not having Helena executed for involvement in the death of his father, Duke Paulus Atreides. |
| Allizkaerf wrote: |
This is a classic dune only forum. |
[EDITED]
Last edited by arnoldo on Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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